Forum Activity for @john-c-knopf

Hear, hear!  Bravo, Dan!

The Latin root 'dulci' means sweet. Nobody knows who exactly invented the words dulcimer or dulcimore. It goes far back in time, to medieval references to hammered dulcimers. 'Dulcimore' is simply one of various old fashioned variations of names for the same or similar instruments.

Right, Dan! So many quaint old names for mountain dulcimers were in use years ago in the US.   Indian walking stick, dulcerine, duck slammer, even sometimes just called a Music Box.
I first noticed the particular name 'dulcimore' being used much more frequently by Dan Cox just a few years ago. Before that (for the 30 years i have studied and discussed dulcimers), we all simply talked about 'traditional mountain dulcimers' and 'modern dulcimers'. 'Dulcimore' rarely came up except in online conversations where we were listing quaint old fashioned historic or regional names for our instrument.
Whether Dan intended it or not, I consider him to have spearheaded a movement where now it seems to be pretty much standard procedure to refer to traditional mountain dulcimers as 'dulcimores'.  Since it's handy to use as a shorter name than constantly saying or writing 'traditional dulcimer', and has a lilting quality, I'm all for making things simpler when discussing our favorite instrument.  But I do think that Dan deserves the credit for 'reviving' the name 'dulcimore' into now common usage and understanding.

It's what you were referring to when you said: "...that I could just count up a few frets to make that tab work"

(The +3 tab conversion really works best)  Sorry, but what does that mean?

Use a DAd tab & count up 3 frets on melody? So, if it's a 2 I would play a 5? Same as a DAA tab

or - use a DAA tab & count up 3 frets, so a 3 I would play on a 6?

1)  No- the standard 'reverse tuning' of DAA would be ADA... reversing the middle and bass strings, NOT doing anything to the melody string. In both DAA and ADA, your tonic note would still be the note of D. (found on one of the drone strings and on the melody string at 3rd fret.)

2)  I don't know what you consider to 'standard tab'... for what tuning? 
Easiest way to test all this: Play it while doing your counting up thing and see if it sounds right, and if you have all the notes you need for the tune. My bet is that it won't translate well if you are fretting on all strings and chording. If that's the case, then retuning to an optimal tuning for the tune and the tab will be the easiest solution.

The +3 tab conversion really works best if you only or mostly play/fret on the melody string (drone style playing). It's more complicated when you fret notes on all strings and/or play chords. You can try it, but I have no idea how it'll sound.

A tuning can often play tunes in more than 1 mode. That's why we are not technically correct in saying "dorian tuning" for instance. What I try to say these days, which is more correct, is that "this tuning is great for playing dorian tunes". The purpose of 'tunings' is to make it easier to play various kinds of tunes. A particular tune might be easier to play in DAG than DAC, for example. You'd have all the notes you need in places that are easily available depending on your style of playing. This is particularly important on non-chromatic instruments like the dulcimer, which is typically 'missing' certain frets.

Hope this helps!

Strumelia,

Looking at your Noter & Drone Blog - Lots of info - could reversing tuning of DAA be the same as AAd 

(Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.) means d is 4 up from A - I still don't understand whats standard tab i have that I could just count up a few frets to make that tab work

Hi

I just ran across a tab (from Carolyn Brodgnisku 'St. Kilba's Lullaby' playing with 'Send in the Music') I tuned to this and tried it out, easy to tune my bass down to 'A. It did sound like bagpipe tuning. 

I usually play melody/chord in DAd/DAA/DGd/CGc etc.. Lately I have been learning how to strum down & much on the melody in AEA (the 50yr. old red dulcimer, I just finished working on) 

As I was just starting to try different tabs, I played a DAA tab on the bass string & again on the middle. 

(Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.)   If I can take my DAd tab & count up 3 & turn it into a DAA tab - does this mean I would count up to 4 for this tuning and would I need to play on the A string, or could I play on the d string?

(dorian tunes) Is that what this tuning is - Dorian?

Thanks, Strumelia - I love how I keep discovering new ways in playing the dulcimer

@carla-maxwell & @ocean-daughter If the weather's fit, we'll all be able to play a tune or two outdoors!  

For the places on Earth with drought and fire/threat of fire now I hope they get the opportunity to be playing indoors on a rainy (not flooding) day.  

Happy strumming, friends!  

Marg that appears to me to be a tuning one would use to play in the lonesome-sounding Dorian mode.

Are you playing the melody on the melody (d) string when in that tuning? And... are you playing in chording style, or in drone style? (drone style meaning you are not fretting the middle or bass string). 
I do have a couple of tabs on my noter drone blog for dorian tunes.  Basically, it's like playing in aeolian except further up the fretboard, and thus you have several extra available notes below the Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.

IMHO  Makeshift instruments are one thing, and Traditional instruments, particularly dulcimers/mores another thing entirely.

Nothing wrong with makeshift -- "necessity is the mother of invention", after all.  That's how instruments were invented -- plucking rhythms on an archer's bow string is the ancestor of all stringed instruments, hollow logs the ancestor of drums, rocks or sticks clicked together the ancestor of all rhythm instruments.  Makeshift or improvisational music making is a multi-thousand year old tradition in it's own right.

Traditional, in the dulcimer sense, is a specific definable set of characteristics which separate pre-1960 instruments from later ones --  in particular how the dulcimer has changed in the past 50+ years.

The Ozarks have at least one Traditional dulcimore -- the so-called Indian or Ozark Walking Stick or Cane --  which can be more or less described as a narrow teardrop shape with sharp corners at the widest part of the bout rather than curves.  Some describe it as a Coffin shape.  That instrument was invented as a specific design by John Mowhee (or Mawhee) back during the Civil War.  Like other instruments of the era it has the same characteristics as other Traditional dulcimores.

On the topic of defining a trad dulcimer vs a contemporary one, my early experiences with dulcimers long before I started playing or building were those that old timers out in the Ozarks played. These were very folksy instruments made out of all kinds of creative materials. I was led to believe that this followed a tradition of makeshift instruments built by their ancestors out of a necessity for music. All instruments from fiddles to banjos to basses to guitars were built this way. Fence staples or fishing line, broom wire/tie wire, old posts/stakes and recycled boxes or random pots, pans, and cans.

I have definitely noticed that those who follow all sorts of different traditional designs tend to prefer alternate terms to 'dulcimer' which seem to imply that the instrument will have a style that is in some way or another not like a contemporary dulcimer. The oldest dulcimers I have personally seen in the Ozarks are very improvised, which I assumed to be characteristic of early dulcimers.
For what its worth, call it a fretted plucked box zither or a hog fiddle, but Ive always enjoyed the Jerry Rockwell coining of a 'musical possibility box.' Still I'd wonder if the dulcimers I make, which are in the style of my somewhat trashy ancestors who loved up-cycling, would be considered traditional by others. It does follow a very old musical tradition, but perhaps not the one most closely related with dulcimer specifically.

That's the spirit of it! Good on ya! It's been cold and raining here in Daylesford, AU, for weeks and my fingers are crossed that the weather is good enough to be outside that day.

I'm going to start telling people I play the Fence Scorpion. 

We have more of a front stoop than a porch, but I'll figure out a way to be out there. 

If I am tune to say AEA I can play DAd tabs, does anyone know if there are any standard tabs for an A'Ad tuning? (Just tuned the D in my DAd down - base D down to A')

I guess the practicalities do get in the way a bit!
This makes me think of all the articles shared on here about dulcimer building workshops in schools. I have spent a lot of time working on ways to make dulcimers as inexpensively as possible. I have helped a couple of hitchhikers to build cardboard dulcimers which, other than having to buy a can of polyurethane that lasts for several, cost ~7$ to make(3 loose strings 1$ each, three eyehole screws as tuners, 1.50$, 2 foot piece of red oak 2.50$) Id love to get to a point with editing where I can make videos on producing good sounding dulcimers for under 30$. We really are blessed to play an instrument that doesn't necessarily  require anything fancy to produce.

Friends, I have the solution you crave for tuning multiple dulcimers for children:  Use zither pins for tuners, and give tuning wrenches only to the instructors!  Tune all of the dulcimers ONCE, and let the classes begin!

Add the tuning issue to the cost of purchasing and maintaining multiple dulcimers helps to explain why the recorder is the choice of most schools.  It is much less costly and is ready to play right out of its pouch.

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Ahh, yes. You are right. ( those pesky details)

One drawback to using string instruments in large groups of children is getting past issues of tuning multiple instruments quickly.  Imagine trying to tune 30 dulcimers before everyone is "in-tune".  The typical elementary music class is about 30 minutes long.  Trying to tune an instrument in a noisy room can be extremely difficulty.  Trying to tune 30 dulcimers in a  room of 30 children is nearly impossible.

Add the tuning issue to the cost of purchasing and maintaining multiple dulcimers helps to explain why the recorder is the choice of most schools.  It is much less costly and is ready to play right out of its pouch.

I agree that a dulcimer should replace the recorder as a child's first introduction to music. Anyone at all can have immediate success. Recorders are hard to get to point where the music is pleasing to a kid. The trouble is that recorders (or "songflutes", what my children got) are cheap, and can be kept by the kid. Or, if you go back far enough to the 60's we had "Tonettes" that lived in a cardboard box until passed out for temporary usage. 

I'd recommend one over a ukulele for a kid being introduced to strings/music.

The label is inside the lower left f-hole. I think the piezo pickup is on the outside, Ken. I'm not quite that clueless.  ;-)

Trouble is this dulcimer is "too common" -- hourglass, scroll head with up-right tuners, f-holes, string pins on the tail block are all VERY common attributes.  Label?  That white bit isn't a label -- it's a stick-on piezo pickup for plugging into an amp. 

Since it includes a bunch of songbooks, the pickup,  and a case, if the price is in your range, just buy it.  If it doesn't sound as nice as you want, you can always re-sell it on Craigslist and get your money back.  

Unfortunately, that's all I have. I was hoping to identify a brand. Obviously, it could be a custom one-off, but I thought someone might recognize it by brand if a more or less common model. I note the tuners, the scroll head, the satin finish, the f-holes, and the fact that the pins are on the bottom rather than on the front as most Folkcraft dulcimers seem to be. It belonged to an older lady (son selling) who cannot play anymore and comes with a fairly large number of songbooks, so I am thinking it got some serious use and is not just some junk instrument. As you might expect, I am very curious to see what it might be. Just because it looks rather plain does not mean it is not a fine instrument. By the same token, I have played some recently built instruments from people you would recognize that were beautiful, but somehow not quite right in how they played and sounded.

There's not a lot to go on here, Bridge.  Doesn't instantly remind me of any particular maker.  Dulcimer-building is all about putting one's own unique style and design to a piece.  If you get any further photos they might help!  Sorry.

Can anyone ID this dulcimer from just this photo? It has popped up for sale on Craigslist by someone who doesn't know much about dulcimers and is not very responsive to questions (out of town, can't check label, etc), but it's available for sale. I am guessing from what I have been told that this instrument is perhaps 20 years old. I was surprised to find that there are not many photos on the net of dulcimers with f-holes. Appears to be made of walnut.

Any guesses? Just a tiny bit of label visible there.

 1.jpg - 96KB

Wonderful points, Nate. Americans have sadly gotten away from the norm of every family having several members who play an instrument at home or at family or community gatherings. 

Well said, Nate!   Preachin' to the choir, as they say, but very well said.

It seems a number of people have purchased dulcimers as an impulse buy, take them home with the intent of learning to play, never get around to it, and store the dulcimer away.

I have purchased no less than 6 second hand dulcimers which appeared to have been played little if at all. One had the pick and noter sealed in a little envelope which had never been opened and the string sale tag still tied to the instrument.

So it is possible to get a "used" dulcimer which has not been used much at all.

Cardboard dulcimers can sound SURPRISINGLY GOOD!  

I know I'm shooting myself in the foot when I say that, being a builder of dulcimers, but it's true.

I just got back from a camping trip where I brought a dulcimer. Plucked by the lake and the campfire and it was a great time. While out there, a friend remarked that it sounds nice and told me what so many people have told me during conversations about music. "I've never been any good." 

Every time I hear this it's like a dopamine rush because I know certainly that if I put a dulcimer in their hands, explain to them the Do-Re-Mi scale as I move up the melody string frets, and then show them that every chord they can play will always be harmonious, they will be enthralled and within 30 seconds their musical confidence will have skyrocketed. Sure enough he was having fun with different rhythms, playing bizarre chords as far as his hands could stretch just to see what they sound like, and once he realized he could barre chords using a lighter as a slide, he was in bliss.

It's an experience I've had many times. I often sling my primitive dulcimers on my back and walk to the river, and along the way people often inquire about it. I really do relish in persuading people who think they lack musical ability to go ahead and try playing. Without fail people who have had really bad experiences with hard to learn instruments get so invested in playing my dulcimer its hard to get it back, and in fact a couple times, they purchased it from me on the spot because the music they made with it spoke to them.

I get a ton of joy from introducing american history enthusiasts, art appreciators, and those who need a boost of musical confidence to my dulcimers. It is so accessible to beginners and is simply gorgeous in the hands of a master. 

In my opinion the dulcimer should replace the recorder as the 'student instrument' given that it's so much more likely to spark a love for music. I think if everyone had access to a dulcimer, almost everyone would be a musician :)

I know people who play finger style on 12-string guitars.  A particular style, if you don't know it already, is only as hard as you make it.  That said, the simple solution is as Strumelia suggests -- remove one of the doubled melody strings.

BTW there's rarely anything wrong with picking up a gently used dulcimer.  I suspect most people are 'thinning the herd' so they can finance another purchase...

If you were really dense, @sunvalleylaw, you wouldn't apologize.  And there's nothing to apologize for anyway.  Unlike Facebook, which has the endless scroll that keeps moving, we try to maintain discussions and forums so they can be searched and used later on.

A couple of posts earlier, @ken-hulme posted a link to an article he wrote: Ken Hulme's "I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?" Article - Strumelia | fotmd.com .  The link is actually to a discussion about that article, but the first post in the discussion by our fearless leader @strumelia has a link to a pdf of the article.  Just follow the link above, scroll to the bottom of the discussion to find the first post, and you'll see that pdf link.

@dusty-turtle, sorry to be dense, but navigation here is a little different from some other forums I am used to.  Which very first post?  In this thread? Sorry, still missing it.  :(

EDIT:  I followed the link, and I there is a post by @strumelia introducing the article, but that is all that is there.  Nothing to scroll down to and no other active link that shows up for me.  

EDIT to my EDIT:  Never mind.  I figured it out.  I had to join the “Beginners” group before the content showed up.  I am starting to figure out how to get around here.  I also joined a couple other groups, such as the modern/chording one, in which I have interest.  Cool place!

Thanks folks!  Will check out Berman’s work too.  As I do want to I learn a little bit about more traditional playing. But after paging through last night, am really excited for Joellen’s too.  And it appears that she signed it, and sent a nice little email when she shipped my order.  Very nice!

I want to learn some traditional, for the learning of it, but in no way want to stop at that and plan to be percussive and experimental, and even add jazz tones and notes in if I can find them.  And I like mixing in foundational “beginner” concepts that can always be reaffirmed, with more advanced concepts, and I know a lot of theory and the guitar fretboard and piano keyboard already, so would not want a beginners only book.  I would get bored with that.  BUT, it is important to consider ergonomic body and hand mechanics, fretting and strumming techniques, staying in time, etc. and expand as I go and become familiar.  

Thanks for the input!

I don't know anything about the Lapidus book yet, I believe, Joellen Lapidus introduced Joni Mitchell to the mountain dulcimer and to using the mountain dulcimer percussively.  

A group whose music I really like, Appalasia, has a mountain dulcimer player who is also a percussion player-- Jeff Berman.  He uses the mountain dulcimer in a percussive fashion, too.   http://appalasia.com/bios 

@sunvalleylaw, that book is by Joellen Lapidus, who was a pioneering dulcimer player and maker several decades ago and is still active and influential today.  Her book is one of the few that mixes stuff for beginners with very advanced material on rhythmic strumming and chords and stuff.  It will serve you very well.  Joellen still plays both traditional songs in a drone style and other jazzy stuff with chords.  She also experiments with different tunings, more than most people, I think.  I'm sure you'll learn a lot there, although you should keep your eyes open for other instructional material that might be free online. And of course, when you're ready, you can contact Joellen directly or find her at a dulcimer festival.

@sunvalleylaw, the article is in a link in the very first post.  Follow Ken's link and then scroll to the bottom where you can find that first post.  You'll find the article there.

Thank you, @ken-hulme.  Would love to read it. However, they link seems to take me to a place mentioning the article, but not including it.  Do you have a different link, or am I doing something wrong at that link?  Thanks!

Steve

You can always simply remove one of the doubled pair of melody strings if you want just single strings, people do it all the time. Remove the one that will result in string spacing you like.

$200 is extremely low for a new dulcimer that is not a cardboard model. If you can set your budget to $300 or $350 you will have additional options. Or, used dulcimers will be a bit cheaper.

That said, most of the cardboard dulcimers sold these days are actually pretty good dulcimers, they play smoothly and they sound nice. They make great super-low-priced starter instruments that remain useful later on for travel and camping, etc.